Summary
About Lessons I Learned in Law
Scott Brown is a ‘recovering lawyer’.
Following years working in international law firms, Scott now runs Heriot Brown – a Legal Recruitment business. His extensive discussions with people across the legal profession have given him insight into what makes lawyers tick.
Now, Scott shares those insights with you – to help you in your career.
Each week Scott invites guests to leave their egos at their door, share their professional successes and challenges, as well as the lessons they’ve learned in law.
The Latest Episode of
Lessons I Learned in Law
Jonathan Wiseman, General Counsel and Chief People Officer at Ocado Retail, joins Scott Brown to share practical lessons on influence, adaptability, and building a truly commercial legal career.
In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Jonathan reflects on his dual role leading both legal and people functions within a fast-growing retail joint venture between Ocado and Marks & Spencer. He shares why the most effective in-house lawyers don’t stay confined to their “legal lane,” but instead operate confidently in the grey areas between legal risk, commercial decision-making, and broader business strategy.
Jonathan’s second lesson centres on career progression—encouraging lawyers to take opportunities when they arise, even when they don’t perfectly align with a pre-defined plan. He candidly discusses his initial hesitation in stepping into a Chief People Officer role and how that decision ultimately expanded his leadership capability and perspective.
His final insight focuses on commercial judgement. Rather than trying to “win” every legal point, he explains why the best long-term outcomes come from building sustainable relationships and balancing legal precision with business reality. It’s a reminder that success in-house is as much about collaboration and trust as it is about technical expertise.
Listeners also get a glimpse into Jonathan’s personal side, from navigating music choices on family car journeys to his reflections on how AI is already reshaping both legal and HR functions.
This episode is brought to you in partnership with Wordsmith AI — the legal AI platform built specifically for in-house teams.
Guest Recommendations
- Song: Waterloo Sunset – The Kinks
Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode
- Register your interest in joining The Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHB
Listen to the Podcast
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/
Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/4
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/
Connect with Heriot Brown
About Heriot Brown:
At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities.
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Chapters
00:00 Opening insight – AI, judgment & modern legal roles
00:56 Scott introduces Jonathan Wiseman, GC & CPO Ocado Retail
03:13 The dual role – Legal, HR & executive leadership
07:04 Lesson 1 – Don’t stay in your swim lane
12:57 Developing commercial thinking in lawyers
19:09 Lesson 2 – Take opportunities (even if they don’t fit the plan)
24:22 Leading people, culture & HR at exec level
34:54 Lesson 3 – The best deal isn’t always the right deal
40:32 Hot or Not – AI, legal value & the role of GC
47:24 Walk-on song, music & closing reflections